Possibly a lot of boat for the money - Norco 29

[Ianfs]

I went to see the Norco yesterday advertised by Harbour Yachts and ColinR (bless you) mentioned in another Topic that it seemed like a lot of boat for the money and did I put an offer in.

Well here's the story.

I saw her advertised earlier this year, so made an enquiry. She was built buy a company in Poole called Norco GRP as a one off design built on an Arrowcraft hull. I tried to find Arrowcraft but could only find a canoe builder. The broker was honest enough to tell me that she was a little dirty and put me in touch with the builder/owner. Mark at Norco seemed like a really nice bloke and was very honest about it and explained that it cost them a lot more than the asking price to build her and that the company that built the hull had gone out of business.
Laura and I wizzed down unexpected in February expecting to see the boat as shown in the photos, but maybe a little dirty, except to say that she was actually filthy with some algae growing on the roof and swim platform and also the window frames were the worst for wear. Laura told me that if I bought it she would be a party to something which would help her claim my life insurance, so I left it.

I couldn't help but nip over there again yesterday just to see if it had been cleaned/smartened up for the summer but she was still in a sorry state.

My thoughts at the moment are.........
For -
Nice boat for the size. although not necessarily all sporty looking.
Twin Yanmars, a bit industrial, but reliable and 480 hp.
Shaft drive.
All new ish, not used, much

Against -
A one off boat of this type, what will its resale value be?
If its been sitting there all this time, will everything still work?
It might need a lot of items replacing already.
Broker may be insulted by my offer.
Single helm seat, could have easily been a double.
Lounger mostly fibreglass, possibly uncomfortable.

Thoughts?
http://harbouryachts.co.uk/boat.php?stock_id=SEKP 1304&boat=Norco-Serena 29

[shibbs]

I like that! And wow, that really is a hell of a lot of boat for 29ft, when I consider it is only 4 ft longer than mine it is completely in a different league with what it offers.
In the video, it looks extremely light and bright both inside and out!
Single helm seat does seem a bit daft but let's be honest, it wouldn't be a difficult job to make a bigger double seat to fit there.
I understand your thoughts about it almost being a one off, but that wouldn't bother me, I think when it comes to re-sale, it will sell itself just because of how much you get for the size and money.
As for the offer to the broker, what does it matter if they're insulted??
I like that a lot, if I had the money, that would tick all my boxes I think...
+ no out drives!!!!

[sprocker]

I agree with Stu. I quite like her, she looks like a decently laid out boat, and oneI would take the time to view if I was still on the market.

Don't worry about offending the broker, offer the price that is right for you, the worst they can do is say no.

[MartynG]

Does it have RCD certification ? If not walk away .
Also do not buy without a survey. And a sea trial - what if it handles like a pig ?

Shaft drive twin diesel 29ft sports cruiser- must be unique .

Accommodation space inside looks a bit tight (presumably due to the shaft drive arrangement) .
Not surprised it goes like a rocket with all that power . Does it have adequate fuel capacity?

Lack of use may well result in issues but a good surveyor should find most faults .
Clearly it has been for sale along while , probably since it was completed , and not sold . Re- sale will probably be very difficult if not impossible once the hardly used aspect has gone. So okay to buy but only as a long term 'keeper' . Check insurance isn't an issue before buying.

Radio downstairs - what use is it there and not at the helm?
Gas hob very bling and have seen the same on new boats at LIBS but not very practical on a boat.
The plastic teak effect decking looks awful.
Canopy looks on its last legs.

What it cost to build is irrelevant . It is an 8 year old boat and sounds somewhat neglected condition . So depreciation does very much come into it. At the end of the day it is a one off and unproven design so still a big risk to take on. Finally I think its ugly.

Something under half the asking price perhaps?

[lewlew100]

That boat looks great. The dirtier/algaeier( I think I just made that word up) she looks the better!!! Obviously you have several good reasons to haggle. The engines have been static for couple of years the boat will certainly need new batteries, full engine service and possibly a bit of a strip down and any other reasons you can think of to denigrate the boat, but a "siily" offer will have a far better chance of being accepted with the boat as is than if serviced, cleaned surveyed and sea-trialled. If I were in your position and wanted the boat I would try to do a sold as seen quick deal without trial or survey, you may well be surprised by the deal you could get. If going for it I would do it now pre-season. Yanmar engines are generally well thought of and depending on the model considered (forum searching to help me with my choice of engine for my project) to be more reliable than the modern Volvos. Not intending to teach granny to suck eggs, but that looks a great boat, you know its history and at the right price will be something very special (might even warrant a new header pic - sorry Bruce) and once SWMBO is basking in the sun warmed cockpit any thought of the "D" word will be long forgotten. Good luck. Geoff.

[lewlew100]

MartynG must be able to type far more quickly than me, his post must have come up whilst I was still typing. Well, there you have ir - two diametrically opposed views. I doubt if the boat has RCD, but as the boat is over 5 years old i think that it can be be legally sold without. The reason that I said that "I" would buy a boat like that without a survey is because the boat is basically new and I feel that you know enough about boats and what to look for, and that most surveys are "restricted to those areas of the vessel to make a representative opinion as to the average condition of those parts of the vessel that were the subject of the inspection at the time of the survey" (not my wording, but lifted from a survey). A full survey and sea trial prior to sale would in my opinion severely restrict the amount of "haggle" room you have. Yes, if you do manage to get a deal close to MartynG's suggestion (I do agree with MG on his price guide as that would have been my starting bid) getting a full survey would immediately increase the value of your investment, even taking into consideration the cost of implementing any MINOR alterations. If the boat has no RCD or CE approval, with a good survey most insurance companies will insure the boat. Geoff.

[betty boop]

lovely boat Ian and good luck to you. cant comment much on these things, the shaft drive I would be preferable as one reply mentioned, having used one over legs on big commercial engines I would definitely say a plus point. Yes all the replies have a valid opinion but as you know with these things it will be whats in your heart that matters. IF the boat feels right for you then you will know it, regardless of your mind saying 'dont be so blo..y stupid' or a pending life insurance claim.

Being of sound mind I'd be tempted with Geoff's idea of buy & go on a silly price, but only with a sea trail and full user inspection. From my purchase last year I feel a lot will have stopped working if she has sat around for a while. But as I've heard from a friend who bought a nice boat with a full survey and still and a big rebuild bill for an engine rebuild etc. A bit like house surveys Id be looking to see what they offer as come back IF the surveyor misses a major fault and you sink after 3 weeks on the water. being one off can be a good thing, doesnt means she's a pig handling, may just be they went bust before selling the mould to sunseeker and your sitting on a gem.

Other than that she looks lovely and a good purchase. Good luck and no favourable pictures on the firm banner

Oh if shes covered in mould then I can offer my services as cleaner /washer /deck hand if youre quick

[lewlew100]

Full and thorough user inspection of course. I personally would sooner take any information from the builder (who seems to reasonable and cooperative) with regard to the sea keeping etc. I still would go for an as is deal as I feel that if a sea trial is requested it will mean the boat will have to be cleaned, at the very least batteries recharged, engines serviced etc. all of which would make a "silly" offer less likely to be accepted. I would just take a chance and go for it - at the end of the day the value of the sum of the parts will almost certainly exceed the offer price, and once cleaned up and running it would in my opinion not be too difficult to "flip" if really necessary, but I am sure that you would not want to. Actually at that age and coming out of a fairly large factory I think there is a good chance that it may well CE approved and have a BMF (old name) code number, a quick discussion with the builder would soon resolve this. I was not in any way thinking that there may be some find of insurance claim anywhere, but merely stating that a post purchase survey, with any resulting minor rectification work carried out would enable you to obtain comprehensive cover as a one off, even in the absence of build approvals. Be brave, go for it if it is what you want - faint heart never won fair lady (watch out that you keep the one you have!!!). I wish you the very best of luck whatever you decide. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but IMHO WOW, what a lovely boat if you can get it at the right price. By now you will have realised that I am "bucket is half full person, rather than half empty"!!! Geoff.

[Ianfs]

Thanks for all you input guys. I think this is a Marmite boat, some say it looks fine others like Martyn say its ugly, I'm in between. I don't think the broker has shown her off well in the photos, I would like to see her without covers, I think the Radar arch would add some attraction.

Nearly all the comments are almost exactly what has crossed my mind many times and I think the main attraction is that its a 29 footer with shaft drives and bundles of power.

As far as the Recreational Craft Directive goes, I haven't asked the question yet because I haven't got that far into it, although it would be interesting to ask if they tried the home build exemption as they are selling it after 5 years from completion. Although there a clause in the directive which says its only home built if the owner doesn't project manage other trades.

The radio downstairs is not a big deal as one could be fitted upstairs and the cooker could be replaced, however she doesn't have any Nav gear i.e. Radar, Chartplotter, AIS etc. but then, there would be lots of fun buying them eh?

As Shibbs and Sprocker said, I think the layout seems ok for her size.

Lewlew and BB a sea trial would be a prerequisite as would a hull and engine Survey even at a silly price. Looking at the hull and how she sits in the water I would imagine she would hold herself well even in a difficult sea, she has similar hull lines to a Fairline 29.

Martyn, I think the comment regarding how much they spent on building her was a throw away sales pitch from an excited owner thinking they had someone hooked. I completely agree with you that its irrelevant.

This is who built her....
http://www.norco.co.uk/

[shibbs]

I don't think the broker has shown her off well in the photos, I would like to see her without covers, I think the Radar arch would add some attraction.

I think the main attraction is that its a 29 footer with shaft drives and bundles of power.

As Shibbs and Sprocker said, I think the layout seems ok for her size.

I absolutely agree, I think she'd look great with the covers off, shame they didn't consider a picture showing her ready to go.

And as for the layout... I think it needs to be highlighted again that this is a 29ft hull!!! I think it's fantastic what they have managed to fit in, and in my opinion, it doesn't look crowded or cramped!!

I think it depends on what size boat your after, 30 and under, you will struggle to beat the space on this, over 30 and it does open up more options but you then have to consider the extra cost that will come with it.